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Post by Mr. Malloy on Mar 25, 2020 22:29:30 GMT
Welcome to our first online discussion thread! At this point, everyone should be read through Chapter 6 in William Golding's Lord of the Flies! For today's topic, I thought that it would be fun if we discussed a controversial reality show from 2007 called Kid Nation. Kid Nation infamously took the concept of LOTF, but did so in a much more modernized environment and placed the children in a ghost town. Here's an article about the show and its concept. Please watch an episode of the show. I've included a link to the first episode, though other episodes are also available. In 1-2 paragraphs, please respond to the following questions: -- What are some of the things that really stood out to you regarding the show? -- How is this show similar and different to Lord of the Flies? -- Would you willingly allow your child to be placed into this environment? Why or why not? -- Does this show actually show reality? Why or why not? Please post your response to the thread below by Friday, 04/03/20. Also, please feel free to respond to your classmates to help keep the discussion going! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts! Also, please read Chapter 7 by next class!!!
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Post by Audra Snyder on Apr 1, 2020 16:03:24 GMT
Some things that stood out from the show are the jobs and tasks they were assigned to do and how they were set up with a social hierarchy in place. Not only did the kids need to clean the out houses, but also do all the cooking, laundry, and maintenance of Bonanza city.They had a society set up and the kids could work harder to change their place in it. This show is similar to Lord of the Flies because the main premise is the same; there are no adults to guide decisions, and there are no rules besides the ones the council put in place. In Lord of the Flies, the kids have to make every choice and fend for themselves, and that is what the kids in Kid Nation do as well. The main difference between Lord of the Flies and Kid Nation is that there is no physical violence between the kids. No one is hurt or killed, and the environment is overall fairly safe.
I would not put my child into this environment if they are under the age of twelve or so. A young child is not mature enough to understand how to keep themselves safe, but also how to do real work, even if they are taught. A young kid should be given the guidance of an adult to help them grow, and in this environment, there is no one like that. If my child were a bit older, I might consider putting my child into this environment only because they are a bit more mature, they have learned more as they have grown up, and can overall fend for themselves. I think this show demonstrates some pieces of reality but not the whole thing. For example, the work the kids are doing like cooking, cleaning, and basic maintenance are necessities in the real world. Those are real life skills they are learning. However, the premise that kids create their own society is fabricated for literature or television. In almost every situation there is an adult whether related or not, that is there and can help the kids.
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Post by Asher Gettings on Apr 1, 2020 16:03:27 GMT
This show really surprised me by the way they used games to decide on social class. The teams weren't even fair. You had most of the older kids on one team and most of the younger kids on another. The main similarity between LoTF is that in both scenarios kids are stuck in a foreign place. There are, however, many more differences between the two stories. For instance, in Kid nation, the kids have already been given any tools they need. Also, they have the ability to call their parents and they had a choice to come. The island in LoTF is much more hospitable than the ghost town in New Mexico.
I did a little bit of background research and discovered that part of the reason the show was discontinued was that some of the kids reportedly drank bleach out of a bottle. And there were many other problems besides that. Assuming that I valued the safety of my child, I would not have sent my child. I think this show is reality, but I think that the people who put the show together built it up around stereotypes. All of the children feel like they were chosen because they fit a stereotype. So it may be reality, but it is definitely on the edges of reality.
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Post by Peyton Jenkins on Apr 1, 2020 16:07:52 GMT
Some of the things that surprised me about this show were the fact that the leaders were already chosen from the beginning. I would have expected that the leaders come forward naturally through "survival of the fittest". This show is similar to Lord of the Flies in that there are no adults in this society. It is also similar in that there are multiple leaders, whose opposing ideas can cause conflicts. This is different than Lord of the flies in that the kids have a way out and can decide to go home at any time whereas in Lord of the Flies they are stuck in their situation with no way out. I would definitely allow my kids to be in this environment because after they come home, they would most likely be enlightened as to why they need structured leadership, they would get some thicker skin, and they would have good practice being both a leader and a follower. This show is not realistic, however, because the camera crew in itself shows that there is some sort of an adult presence most likely providing guidance.
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Post by Megan Jaco on Apr 1, 2020 16:28:40 GMT
Not many of the kids seemed to be satisfied with the choice in leadership and let this get to their heads. Like the older boy who was pushing the leader around. The leader did not seem to taking this task lightly either. In Lord of the Flies, the kids are in much more danger than these kids, but still seem to be in better control of the situation. Ralph and Piggy maintain order very well and they work out what to do more seamlessly than on the show. The kids on the show also seem to be breaking up into the categories of society like in the book as well though, showing leadership, friendliness, and brutality. The kids on the show are provided with many more resources and know that they will get out of this situation eventually, which is why they do not feel as hopeless and in need of food as much as in the book.
I would let my child be placed in a similar environment because I feel like that would be a good learning experience and a decent representation of society and what to expect in the real world. There are not real dangers in the show version of this scenario and the understanding that it will only be for a short amount of time and their necessities will be provided would be comforting. This show somewhat represents a scaled-down version of society because in some countries the people do not get to pick their leader and do not agree with the leader's orders. The kids just have to accept their leaders for what they are and try to work things out the best they can. The kids are very widespread in every age group and culture so you see very many characteristics of different people in society. This is not completely accurate though because they know that they are on camera and their conversations and actions are being monitored. In Lord of the Flies, they were truly on their own so they were free to do more, which lead ultimately to brutality.
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Post by Luke Brunner on Apr 1, 2020 16:37:29 GMT
Some of the things I was surprised by or stood out to me was how the kids more or less started working on getting food right away after choosing bunks, whereas often I would expect kids like that to run around and mess around for a while before getting to work, and not work diligently. Another thing that surprised me was how even on the road to the old town, people started disliking the leaders. The similarities with LOTF is that they are in the same situation where they are stranded for a certain amount of time with no adults or leader figures besides who was elected on the beach, and the ones already chosen. Another similarity is how they don't all work as a team very well, as seen in LOTF when the little kids don't work and mess around and play in the lagoon, and in Kid Nation when the kids can't even pull the wagons as a team without people getting upset at the leaders and others. In the right situation and at the right age I would let my kids be in this environment just because I would want them to get a sense and appreciate how well run society is generally, and I would like to see how they respond because they will be out in the real world quickly. This may not completely show reality because there is a camera crew, and no one is just provided with food, and transportation, as people have to work for things such as that.
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Post by Devon Garls on Apr 1, 2020 16:42:47 GMT
Some things that stood out to me while watching the show was how the leaders or the town councils were younger than the oldest kids in the town. Usually, the oldest kids would take charge, which they eventually did. Another thing that stood out to me was how the leaders handled being leaders, instead of being part of the group they began to just try to get people excited, giving them motivation. This only demotivated people, making them not want to work because their leaders weren't working. This was one of the main differences to Lord of The Flies. Another difference was the entire setting, instead of a tropical island in the middle of nowhere, this was set in New Mexico in an abandoned town with already made structures and food and water. Also, the kids in Kid Nation were a lot less mentally stable than the kids in Lord of the Flies, many cried in Kid Nation while only the little-uns cried in Lord of the Flies. I would put my kid in this environment because I think it's important for kids to understand the importance of self-reliance and leadership in their lives. It's important for kids to understand that sometimes they have to take control of their own lives. This show does not show reality. I believe that the things that the kids do are not scripted, however, the setup of the show leads the kids to act certain ways with events that give advantages to some of the groups of kids. The show doesn't allow the kids to fully have control over what they want to do, but rather enforced jobs that they have to carry out because they placed a certain way in an event. The kids to act realistically, however. They act like, well, kids.
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Post by Dreu Charles on Apr 1, 2020 16:49:34 GMT
One thing that stood out to me was how the kids were surprisingly task oriented and they drew there motivation from wanting to prove them selves, whereas I would have predicted they would draw their inspiration from trying to work as fast as possible so they could be done as fast as possible. The basis of this show parallels Lord of the Flies because both are centered around a community with no parental figures or even adults to guide or lead when it comes to leadership, decision making, cooking, etc. But, in the TV show the kids are given an easy escape route where they could just go home whereas in Lord of the Flies the only real escape route would be inevitable death. I would definitely not allow my child to be exposed to this environment as it is chaotic and to stressful for an a child still in the years in which they should be having fun, and this does not look like fun. Finally, I believe this show does not depict reality as if it were the kids would not be supplied will the necessary equipment in which they received and if something really got bad one of the ADULT camera men could surely step in.
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Post by Molly St. George on Apr 1, 2020 17:26:03 GMT
Overall, the show has some very obvious similarities to LOTF. Some kids are worried, tensions rise quickly, and there is a conflict between someone who was named a leader (like Ralph) and someone who feels like he is doing much of the manual labor (like Jack). Conflict and tension are prominent in the majority of the interactions seen so far. I would be hesitant to put my own child in this situation because it does not appear very constructive. There is potential for it to turn into more of a team-building experience where kids can learn to problem solve which is a valuable thing. I would want it to be a more controlled environment if I were to send my kid. This show does not actually show reality. For one, it is said that there are no adults there but there must be a camera crew. It is also likely that some of the events and personas are fabricated.
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Post by Axel Ortiz on Apr 1, 2020 17:43:46 GMT
While I was watching some of the kids especially the older kids were more competitive and somewhat helpful when they were getting ready to cook. This show is different because in the show they get rewards for doing challenges and the have money to buy things like food/candy. It is somewhat similar because they do not have any help from the adults. Yes I would place my child in this sort of environment because it would show them how to live and survive if something like that happened i would enjoy being in that sort of situation myself. I do not think this reality show is an actual reality show because in a way they are helping them by the adults creating a challenge for them to get things like a television or more bathroom it does not give them the right experience but they still face challenges that you would encounter if you just dropped 40 kids in a abandon place with a 40 day supply of food.
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jack
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Post by jack on Apr 1, 2020 17:51:21 GMT
One thing that especially stood out to me was how scripted it felt. There were for sure several moments when the kids were just doing their own things, (like arguing and doing their jobs), but if anything, this just made the scripted parts stand out. For example, Greg and his friend vandalizing the houses was horrendously fake, and so were the other kids' reactions to it. I see this as more different than Lord of the Flies, as the hierarchy structure was different. The hunters and the society - driven kids in LOTF don't have different qualities of life, so to speak, or at least to not as great of an extent. Based off of one event, an entire group of people got paid 10% of what the upper class was making, for likely 5 times the work. The children in Kid Nation also aren't in a life or death situation. Even despite the obvious presence of adults, they were provided with 40 days of supplies in addition to the supplies in several shops. The boys in LOTF had absolutely nothing, and have to deal with killing living things. I suppose I would let my child into a scenario like this. Given that they are completely safe, it would be an environment to learn how to deal with people not only their age and class but kids of other ages from all walks of life. It would be a great teamwork exercise on how to deal with and lead a large group of people. I believe that this show is quite far from reality. As I mentioned before, there are several instances of scripting (such as Greg's vandalism, and when some of the boys go hunting for rabbits and just throw rocks at nothing). In addition to the book in the chapel, the stores fully stocked with food, soft drinks, and supplies, and even the presence of standing stores just throws off any reality of the situation.
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Post by Maddie Park on Apr 1, 2020 18:08:32 GMT
Some things that stood out to me was most of the kids right off of the bat just from first impressions did not like the council leaders. I also noticed that most of the council leaders were younger than some of the other kids. It may have caused some anger in the older kids that someone younger than them was in charge. Another thing I noticed was that most of the "city" kids adapted pretty fast, especially in the first part when the goats got loose. Some similarities with the show and the Lord of the Flies is in that the kids are all scared and panicked at first then as the day goes on it gets better. For example in the beginning, when the kids were trying to make dinner for the first time there were some kids who weren't the council leaders who stood up and took charge. Just like in the Lord of the Flies, when Ralph and Jack stood up as the leaders. Some differences are obviously this is a TV show and it might seem that they are in actual danger, but it is nothing to compare the real danger that the kids in the Lord of the Flies are in. However, it feels that way to the kids in the show.
This show is quite intense and really brings out the best and the worst in the kids. I would allow my kid to participate. However, it would be totally up to them and I wouldn't sugar coat what going to happen. I feel that would be a great experience that most kids don't get to have. I feel that it would build character and help show how tough the real world is. They will gain so much experience that most adults will never have. They will also have so much more empathy towards others and be much more thankful for things they have. I believe that this show does portray reality because some of the kid's reactions were genuine and heartfelt. You could really see the pain or happiness that they showed throughout the whole experience.
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Post by Lucas LaBruzzo on Apr 1, 2020 18:19:19 GMT
The things that really stood out to me are the same things that differentiate Kid Nation from Lord Of The Flies. Firstly, the man in Kid Nation is way too influential. The main premise of Lord Of The Flies is to depict a scenario where there is no pre-existing authority or guidance. While the town does have to function the man directs everyone, especially the leaders, to what they have to do. There are prescribed rules and procedures on how the town should be run. Another glaring difference from Lord Of The Flies is the separation of the kids into distinct groups. In Lord Of The Flies, the boys do different tasks and have distinct abilities; but they never intentionally try to separate themselves into different groups (based slightly on merit) that would directly compete with each other. Of course, Lord Of The Flies and Kid Nation are similar through the premise of having a society run by children; and by ones that do not know how to. While initially seeming well-intentioned, Greg (the older and taller boy) does appear to be quite similar to how I perceive Jack. Personally, I would not put my child in an environment like Kid Nation. The lessons gained through Kid Nation, e.g leadership and work ethic, can be obtained under different circumstances. I do not know if Kid Nation is the right experience. On the other hand, a lot of Kid Nation seems scripted. Instances such as “I am very hungry; and as Martin Luther King Jr. once said ‘I have a dream!’” are likely not scripted and there is plenty of what seems like genuine interaction. However, once the teams are split up, Greg immediately goes around chalking the other bunkhouses with “Go Blue!” It seems way too sudden for that form of competition between the color groups to occur.
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Post by Wyatt Waldyke on Apr 1, 2020 18:21:26 GMT
-Who founded this idea it shocks me that someone would want to test and see if children can handle running a town. And since the producers did this anyways the kids probably learned a lot from it so the parents need to stop complaining abut it. -It is similar that there is a group of self governing kids that face a challenge of running a settlement by them selves.It differs by the fact that the kids nation show has adults that still are there weather they step in or not. -Definitely my kid I would want to learn how to live and grow and I think it would help him to be able to solve more problems and I think that it would be good for the kid + I get payed for it. -No Our reality is that kids these days grow up with our parents and learn from them on there own without being sent to a ghost town to learn for them selves. Thought I may like the idea it is not reality.
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Post by Mira Metter on Apr 1, 2020 18:21:30 GMT
Some things that stood out to me were the jobs that the kids immediately assumed the moment they got together. Surprisingly they all seemed willing to do the work at first, but soon after arriving the kids became hungry and desperate for food and that was when chaos broke out. Another thing that stood out to me was that when the children were broken up into their teams and given the opportunity to earn money, the chaos seemed to intensify rather than become more organized. Much like in Lord of the Flies, right off the bat there was a social hierarchy set in place which some people were not pleased with. Unlike in Lord of the Flies the kids can go home whenever they want which takes off some of the tension which was present in the book. Another similarity between the book and the show was that the younger kids were struggling to get the food they needed and they were not thriving like the older kids because they had the added challenge of being separated from their parents at such a young age. I would not put my child in this situation because even if they would generally be safe, it seems like a very intense situation for young kids to be in that could be overall pretty emotionally damaging and an unnecessary position to put a child in. This show does not show the full reality because there is a camera crew and the host of the show is present in case anything goes wrong and the kids can also go home at a moments notice.
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