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Post by Mr. Malloy on Apr 2, 2020 20:27:11 GMT
Looking at Chapter 7, respond to one (1) of the following sets of questions:
a.) How does Ralph feel about the rest of the boys as the chapter opens? How does Simon attempt to console Ralph? What does this indicate about Simon’s character? What could this be foreshadowing?
b.) Describe the symbolic nature of the ocean at the beginning of this chapter. What could the ocean represent here? Explain.
c.) Describe the pig hunt that takes place in Chapter 7. How is this hunt different than before? Explain.
Then, please answer this question. I’m REALLY looking forward to reading and hearing your responses:
a.) Obviously, the main characters in the text are all young boys. How do you think the events of the novel might be different if it were girls? In other words, how would the novel be similar and/or different if it were a group of young women stranded on the island rather than young males? Explain.
Be sure to read Chapter 8 for next class!!!
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Post by Gina Meyer on Apr 2, 2020 23:55:34 GMT
B. The symbolic nature of the ocean could be the representation of no hope that is spreading throughout the boys. When Ralph describes it as an "impenetrable wall", the idea and feeling is conveyed that he believes that they are trapped there and he is losing hope.
A. If a group of young girls were to be trapped on that island instead of boys, there would most likely be more order in the society. However, girls tend to become mentally abusive instead of physical if they do not get along, so if one thing were to occur that disrupted the order everything could blow up. On the other hand girls could bond together and create a more sophisticated, efficient society in the island because girls usually want things to be orderly and logical.
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Post by Autumn Davis on Apr 3, 2020 14:48:33 GMT
b.) At the beginning of the chapter, the ocean symbolizes a barrier, as well as the boy's fleeting hopes of leaving the island. Its rhythmic tides seem to represent time as it passes. Together, the symbolization of the ocean seems to drive each boy mad as time progresses; their fears and lack of hope of getting off the island turns the boys against each other.
a.) In the Lord of the Flies, the group of children is solely males. If this group was made up of girls and young women, many elements of the story would probably change. Similarly to the boys, girls would probably both hunt and gather for food and join together as some sort of society for strength in numbers. However, girls would probably focus more efforts on shelters and a smoke signal, as well as preserving order. Although girls can be very catty and sometimes vicious towards each other, they usually utilize more verbal attacks than physical. To keep from having to deal with other girls's harmful words, many girls will find a way to keep a physical space between them as a logical way to keep peace/sanity. Therefore, if the island was run by girls, there would probably be many more shelters much more spread apart in order to have some sort of personal space. Overall, much less physical violence would probably occur in a society of girls and young women, although some elements of being stranded on a deserted island would remain similar.
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Post by Phillip Truong on Apr 3, 2020 15:01:21 GMT
Symbolic nature of the ocean: Bliss, because the ocean´s serenity made Ralph want to abandon and forget everything in order to just lay on the beach and dream about things.
If the cast were all girls? It would definitely be different in a few ways. Their priorities would probably be somewhat of the same, but they would have more difficulty with things like building shelter, hunting pigs, and other stuff like that. I would also agree with the point that girls are more mental with their violence. In situations like the ones showcased in LOTF, one´s mental health is much more important than one´s physical health (in my opinion), so the fact that girls are much more violent in terms of their words, would probably make their situation worse.
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Post by Zoe Newman on Apr 3, 2020 15:10:09 GMT
B.) The symbolic nature of the ocean's descriptions in chapter 7 seem to represent the boy's nature in a way almost. The ocean is endless and disregarding of anything in it's way. Very similar to how the boys act on the island, with such a disregard or care for it. Their journey/visit on this island will be endless just like the ocean if they don't find a way off quickly.
A.) The story would definitely be different if the main characters were female. Girls have a way of being emotionally manipulative, and the mental abuse would really emerge from the group. The physical aspect of fighting, would probably not happen as much, but the aspect of fighting would still be there. They may not fight physically bu that doesn't mean they won't verbally hurt you. I feel like the group would be much more divided, with more separate groups than just the Jack vs. Ralph groups. Their would be a ton of different sub groups.
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Post by Rhylee Jensen on Apr 3, 2020 15:10:24 GMT
B.) The ocean at the beginning of the chapter is used almost as a barrier between the boys and the way out. They are unable to escape the island, because they can not swim out into the ocean. Ralph, as well as the rest of the boys on the island are stuck, their is no way of escape unless they get rescued.
A.) If all the characters in the novel Lord of the Flies where female, I feel like the book would have some obvious differences. In similarity to the boys, the girls would be hunters/gatherers, but their main focus would be on keeping order and trying to leave the island. The girls would keep better control over the group, and would be better at working together, as well as, keep their priorities straight. I feel like sometimes, it is harder for boys to listen to each other and work together than it is for girls. Females also have a sense of mother ship, making it easier for the older girls to care for the little's, rather than how the boys do in the novel currently. On the other hand, I think that the females would be less prepared to handled some things, like the beast, just because of their ability to handle emotions at certain time. Both genders have different ways of handling situations, so in the case of surviving on a deserted island, I don't know who would do better.
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Post by Ava Morton on Apr 3, 2020 15:14:00 GMT
a) Ralph is worried that the boys are way too far down the wrong path. They're dirty, which he decides is the new normal now, sadly. They also don't seem to care much about being clean. I think the dirt on their skin is a symbol for their complete lack of care about the rest of society. They are now solely focused on the island. Simon comforts Ralph by saying that they will get back home and won't be stuck on the island forever, and they smile about it. This shows that Simon is a positive person and is kind enough to mind others emotions and to know the right thing to say in the moment. This may be foreshadowing a rescue, because they both seem so sure that it will happen.
a) If the main characters were girls, the situation would be very different. The girls would care more about getting rescued than the boys do right now, meaning that their main goals instead of hunting would be smoke signals and exploring. Girls would also bond more and be more collaborative, which would help. I don't think there would be as much violence, and more gathering would occur than hunting. However, emotions might get in the way of having a singular united civilization, which is essential in this situation, and smaller groups might form rather than two main groups as with the boys.
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Post by Emily Wingard on Apr 3, 2020 15:14:51 GMT
B) In the beginning of the chapter, the symbolic nature of the ocean feels like a wall blocking all hope of escaping the island. This represents that through what has happened so far in the book it looks like time is going no where. They can't escape the island because instead of working together the boys are very undisciplined and don't care it seems. So that means that they are struggling to work together to get a plan together to try and escape.
A)If in Lord of the flies became only females instead of all males it would look a lot different. Girls are better at working together and focusing on what needs to be done. Girls seem to be a lot more organized in situations. Things would happen differently. But also girls don't really like hunting/hurting animals. Boys on the other hand will hunt animals in a heartbeat as read in the book. Girls seem to want to work together and not fight. In some aspects of being stranded on an island would be similar but over all the way things are down compared girls to boys are completely different.
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Post by Audra Snyder on Apr 3, 2020 15:21:47 GMT
a. As the chapter opens, I feel that Ralph is separating from the other boys a bit. Ralph and Jack have always had a power struggle, and as they prepare for another hunt, this mutual attitude of respect but aggressiveness continues. Simon plays a crucial role of a peace maker taking time to console Ralph as he dreams of home. Simon tells Ralph "you'll get back alright" and is confident in their talents to be rescued. This shows a lot about Simon's personality. He is an easy-going guy who does not like conflict, and believes that a feeling of hope in their talents will save them. This could be foreshadowing that his calm demeanor could aggravate the more "intense" boys on the island.
a. The events on the island would be different if everyone on the island were young girls. Firstly, young girls might not be as quick to violence as the young boys on the island. Yes, the girls would make shelters and fire and maybe hunt if they deemed it crucial, however, the physical violence between them would be less. Young girls can hurt each other mentally and emotionally though, and that would be their downfall. The girls would also probably be a little more smart about how they go about things. For example, the fire would not have been left to die out if girls were in charge. Although the girls would be less physical, mental and emotional fights would happen.
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Post by Peyton Jenkins on Apr 3, 2020 15:28:21 GMT
B. The ocean at the beginning of the chapter symbolizes the barrier between the island and society. It is the ocean that causes isolation from humanity. As the tide carries waves back and fourth, it mocks the young boys' desires as time goes on, and they have less, and less of a chance of getting rescued.
If the island was filled with girls rather than boys, I genuinely feel like it would be worse. While the girls would have a much better chance of getting rescued, they would have to stay alive long enough which is where the problem would arise. After days at the island, mental health would, naturally, lose stability. Women, especially young women, are extremely emotional. They would spend all of their time trying to stay sane in the midst of cliques, drama, and fear, that I can imagine that they'd forget to feed themselves. If and when the female population gets the hang of hunting and have shelter established, they would be much better off than the boys, the struggle is obtaining these skills before starving to death.
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Post by Maegan Wesley on Apr 3, 2020 16:03:02 GMT
b. the ocean represents the isolation of the island from the outside world and the loss of influence from society. Ralph refers to the ocean as an 'impenetrable wall' which shows his feeling of helplessness when it comes to getting rescued and getting off if the island. The boy's behavior in the book changes drastically when the presence of society and it's expectations are gone and they only have themselves, Ralph obviously senses the danger that the hunters could be and that feeling alone seems to make the island more and more isolated as they lose touch with their civilized selves.
a. If the island was populated with girls instead of boys, saying it would be better or worse would not make sense. Although girls on the island may be more focused on shelters and a signal fire, they most likely would not be thinking for the immediate, like hunting so they have food. Young women also tend to be more emotional than young men, so if you put a bunch of young girls on an isolated island they are likely going to form cliques and have verbal fights rather than emotional ones. So, yes, women would likely think ahead and make preparation for themselves to be rescued sooner than men, but they also may let feelings get in the way of necessity.
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Post by Leigh Schmidt on Apr 3, 2020 16:07:36 GMT
The ocean is symbolic of Ralph’s fear of never being rescued. It is a lot rougher where the boys are than it is by the lagoon and the shelters, which makes Ralph think about how hard it would be for a ship to get to them. On page 125, the nature of the two sides of the island is described: “On the other side of the island, swathed at midday with mirage, defended by the shield of the quiet lagoon, one might dream of rescue; but here, faced by the brute obtuseness of the ocean, the miles of division, one was clamped down, one was helpless, one was condemned, one was--”
If this book were about a group of girls, the same events would transpire that did with boys, but they would happen in a different sequence. For example, most of the boys’ priority was to hunt pigs. Girls would probably end up hunting, but not before building shelters and starting a fire for smoke signals. A group of girls would probably explore the island after being there a while, but the boys wanted to explore right away. The groups of people would also be different. With the boys, there is one big group led mainly by one person. Girls would have multiple smaller groups and multiple leaders. The female leaders would probably get into more verbal arguments, while Ralph and Jack have more physical fights.
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Post by Luke Brunner on Apr 3, 2020 16:19:02 GMT
The ocean at the beginning of the chapter symbolizes Ralph's beliefs that the boys are undisciplined and unruly. The ocean acts as a wall or a barrier between the boys and their home life, but it is impenetrable and blocks all hopes of the boys making it home. This leads to a feeling of helplessness and loneliness by Ralph, although Simon tries to comfort him.
I think that the while the girls may be smarter and think through things more and try to make everything more organized, there would be a lot of drama and tension between different groups, which would lead to an inefficient way of doing things. Also, instinctively, almost right away the boys set off to go explore the island, and I believe girls would have more order and follow more of a set of rules than the boys, who mostly just go with the flow and whatever happens happens, although some of the group tries to make order.
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Post by Maddie Park on Apr 3, 2020 16:33:05 GMT
a. Ralph at the beginning of the chapter is still feuding with Jack for the ultimate leader power. The hunt makes everything worse in a sense. That is where Simon steps in and tries to console Ralph. He is very calm and almost seems like he knows how to calm others. He is very much like a consoling parent to Ralph and helps him calm down. This could be foreshadowing that Simon might make a turn and become one of the "villains" later in the book. I feel that the author is emphasizing way too much on the fact that Simon is acting like such a selfless friend to Ralph, something has to happen.
a. If this book was with girls it would be way different. I don't think necessarily it would be better. A stereotype of girls is that they keep grudges and boys just brush the problem off. I feel like there would be way more drama with the girls since girls take out their anger verbally and not physically. I also think that their main focus would be to get off of the island instead of trying to find the beast. They would spend most of the time trying to signal a boat with the smoke instead of trying to hunt oars and exploring the island. The girls maybe would also have a better order and system of government. I feel that they would have a different way of choosing their leaders that what the boys did. Overall, I think that they would have a better chance of getting off the island than the boys.
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Post by Asher Gettings on Apr 3, 2020 16:41:29 GMT
a) As the chapter opens Ralph feels that the boys have become dirty and undisciplined. They are all generally unclean and Ralph finds himself surprised that this has become the new normal in his mind. As he gazes dejectedly out on the rolling waves, Simon climbs from a higher rock and says, "You'll get back to where you came from." This demonstrates Simon's kind and benevolent character. He knew just what to say to help console Ralph and he is able to boost morale. I do think this may be foreshadowing that they won't ever make it off of the island.
a) During world war 2, because the majority of men were drafted, many women who had stayed home were forced into labor in order to provide for their families. Even though after the war it mainly went back to the way it was before, I believe that had it been a group of girls instead of boys they may have just been able to express some autonomy in a still mainly patriarchal society. So these girls and young women would probably be exercising this newfound power which could lead to power struggles and "political" instability, but it could also lead to a very good, well-functioning society where everyone has a say in order to keep it from becoming a very hierarchical society where some are pushed to the bottom.
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