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Post by Sienna Johnson on Apr 3, 2020 18:21:32 GMT
b) The ocean is very symbolic throughout the book, as we see Golding returning back to it. It symbolizes a sort of barrier between the boys and home, representing a loss of hope. It creates a sense of being trapped, claustrophobia, in some of the boys, causing them to lose their minds. They all have a fear in the back of their minds that they will be stuck on this island forever, never being able to get home. The rhythmic tides depicting time passing, reinstates this fear.
a) I believe firmly that boys and girls are much more similar than society lets on, especially at a young age. When the island is 100% boys, there is drama, there is a social hierarchy, there is violence, there is bullying. On one side of the spectrum, there are the stereotypes that there would be more drama, but the island would stay more organized and they would get responsibilities completed in a quicker fashion if it was exclusively girls. On the other hand, some people may believe that the girls would be unable to survive, without knowing how to build shelter or a fire. In my opinion, there are so many types of people, regardless of gender. Some boys on the current island do not know how to do these basic tasks, and some do. It would be the same case if they were all girls. While there would be some drama, I´m sure, it would not be an utter difference. Girls and boys can both become violent, they can both make decisions, they can both bully others, they would definitely create a hierarchy, and they both have the ability to stay organized. Maybe, if they were adult men vs. adult women, the case would be a bit different.
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Post by Mateo.p on Apr 3, 2020 18:22:56 GMT
1)As the chapter starts, the ocean feels symbolically like a barrier blocking any chance of seeing anything outside the dismal island again. This seems to suggest that through all that has happened so far in this journey time has simply vanished from the earth. There traped on the island because they are struggling to work together to get a plan together to try and escape. instead, they choose to muk around dancing, hunting, throwing rocks at each other.
2) this is an inherently dumb question. The author created specific character hopping on bias and stereotypes as a base. The characters in the novel do not act the way they due because they are boys they do so because the author wanted them to. In the same way boy is not a personality trait girl isn't either so to ask, "how would girls behave" is stupid. It's like asking what X is without any information. Thus it is impossible to answer.
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Post by Teddy Sopkin on Apr 3, 2020 19:26:46 GMT
B)The ocean begins to feel like a wall, trapping the boys on the island. It starts to feel like the don't have any choices anymore. They all began to joke pretty soon after they land on the island, but now it's forcing them to come to terms with their own life and the possibility of it ending, or them being on the island for a very long time. The ocean reminds the boys how real all of this is. The island reminds the boys of how real all of this is and it terrifies the boys.
A)I think that if the island was full of girls they would be nicer to each other and more caring. They(at least before the insanity hits) would be more understanding and understand that they're all going through the same things. I think that once the insanity does hit they'll start to be self centered(not because of their gender, but just because that's what people do, regardless of gender identity.) I think that it would be harder for them to get food because they're more caring. I think many things are the same for men and women because being stuck on an island could make anyone insane.
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Post by Oscar Hackstaff on Apr 3, 2020 19:38:31 GMT
B. The ocean may symbolize despair and fear. It might symbolize despair because of how big the ocean is and they are on an island in the middle of the ocean. It might also symbolize fear because even if a boat or plane goes why would it want to stop and look at an island in the middle of the ocean. With despair and fear being symbolized it creates a loss of hope because as the days go bye people are going to stop looking for the boys and move on with their lives. A. I think the book would be different because the girls might want to get off the island rather than prepare to stay on it, unlike the boys who would rather prepare to stay on it. I also think it is similar because the girls might have more of a problem working together and they might separate into little cliques, kind of like how the boys have separated into two groups. Overall, I think the main goal for the girls would be to try and get off the island while the boys would rather prepare to stay on the island.
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Post by Kat Davis on Apr 3, 2020 19:40:06 GMT
b.) The ocean, as described by Ralph at the beginning of the chapter is like this endless obstacle in which Ralph knows the boys have no chance of beating. It's meant to symbolize the sinking feeling that's growing among them and their disconnection from their once glamourous lives. Ralph knows that they can't get out, and he's losing hope. That's why he describes the ocean as cold and angry, as if, somewhere deep inside that's how he feels. It's a reflection of Ralph onto the sea, the boys' largest obstacle. a.) If this were about a group of girls and not boys, I feel like a lot of the terrible things that happen later in this depressing excuse of a novel would be avoided. In the beginning, I also feel like things would have run smoother, and there would be less physical fighting. The girls would have done less lounging around on the beach and probably focused more on building shelter, however, there might have been more verbal fighting.
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Post by Katarina Garcia on Apr 3, 2020 20:18:01 GMT
c)The boar hunt that takes place in chapter 7 is different from the other pig hunt because now Ralph is involved. Before Ralph could not understand why the other boys were so concerned with hunting and wished instead to make shelters and build fire. Now, however, as Ralph joins the hunt he is unable to resist the instinctive excitement and adrenaline that pumps through him as they pursue the boar. Even the book's supposedly civil main character gets swept up in the blood lust that the other boys love. Through this hunt, Golding indicates how even the most civil and orderly person has an undeniable, innate drive to savagery. After the hunt, the boys reenact the excitement by hunting their friend Robert. At first, it is all fun and games, but yet again Robert's peers get sucked into the excitement and thrill of power and their vision blurs with the desire to kill. Even Ralph joins in and beats Robert and jabs him with spears until he is almost dead.
a)The novel would be different if it was girls in many ways. For example, the girls would be a lot less violent than boys and have different values. I would think that it would be more orderly and more of them would want to build shelters instead of hunt. It might be harder physically to trek through the thick of the jungle and hunt down pigs, but as they hunt they would be more sensitive and not develop the same unquenchable desire to kill that the boys have. They would not result in as much physical violence, but emotional and mental abuse might take place. I think they would have more cliques than the boys and would have less of a power struggle. It might be more orderly, but I do not know if it would be better.
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Post by Rachel Thomas on Apr 3, 2020 20:31:16 GMT
a. At the start of the chapter, Ralph's attitude from the res of the boys is slightly withdrawn. Hes starting to lose hope and starting to feel a lot of anxiety about their normal ways of life on the island now and how standards from the real world, like cleanliness don't really exist anymore. Simon is a positive person and is trying to keep faith but it could come off as annoying to some of the other boys, a constant voice saying it will be ok even though most of them don't believe it is just a constant reminder of how much they've changed since reaching the island. I think it could foreshadow two very different endings but I can't decide what I really think will happen. either, it's foreshadow a rescue, and Simon is still there to keep faith slightly alive. Or something will happen to him and his hopeful attitude, signifying what everyone else is feeling at this time, that they are doomed on the island.
a. I think gender has less to do with the way their acting but more to do with age. If it was a group of older boys or men, yes there would still be drama, but they would be more equipt to deal with it. I don't think it being girls would change very much because they are all still children. If it were girls, the things distracting them or games their playing might look slightly different, but I think they would have a lot of the same struggles with leadership and survival, because they are all just children. Assuming they would be more organized or less able to tackle some of the tasks needed can't even be considered if you think about the fact that they are all just kids and would all be kinda clueless in this situation.
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Post by Tiana Phi on Apr 3, 2020 20:46:43 GMT
b.) The symbolic nature of the ocean is something that's separating them from the island and getting back home. The ocean represents the boys' little hope of getting off and going home. a.) If the characters were young girls instead of young boys, I believe that there will be a slight change. It won't be the biggest change, but it would be different enough. The similarities would be their priorities on finding ways to get off this island. Unlike they boys, they'll be more arguing on the little decisions. But the young girls would have a better plan out then the boys.
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Post by Mr. Malloy on Apr 3, 2020 21:55:16 GMT
2) this is an inherently dumb question. The author created specific character hopping on bias and stereotypes as a base. The characters in the novel do not act the way they due because they are boys they do so because the author wanted them to. In the same way boy is not a personality trait girl isn't either so to ask, "how would girls behave" is stupid. It's like asking what X is without any information. Thus it is impossible to answer. Well, then specifically which character and personality traits is Golding symbolizing here using boys? And better yet, why boys? Why did he choose boys rather than girls? There had to be a reason, so please tell me...
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Post by Lucas LaBruzzo on Apr 3, 2020 22:39:46 GMT
b.) The vast ocean represents an insurmountable obstacle. The ocean stretches vastly farther than even the boys’ eyes can see. It is incredibly unlikely that a ship would happen upon the island, and would know that there are people there desperate for rescue. The ocean symbolizes the problems in life that seem so impossible to conquer that they drain all hope. Problems that make people give up. a.) I don’t desire to get all “preachy”, but it really depends on the individuals. The best example I can think of is Jack. Personally, I don’t believe most boys act like Jack: a power hungry tyrant; who may even be sociopathic. If just one person, like Jack, were removed from the island the resulting scenario would be entirely different. However, girls may be more emotionally aggressive and that would present its own problems. One could say that boys and girls both have “pros” and “cons”. Yet, the same trait could be interpreted to be better or worse for survival depending on the person and reasoning.
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Post by Jake Haas on Apr 4, 2020 15:40:05 GMT
The ocean in the beginning of the chapter is shown as a wall or obstacle that can not be passed. This barrier is what is separating the boys from getting home. It also crushes hope of getting home and creates a feeling of loneliness and helplessness. This is why the boys try and stick together but also can create anger and tension.
If this book was written with girls I think lots would change and it would be different. First of all, I believe if it was written about girls the author would have to be a girl as well. Instead of hunting and trying to kill animals girls would farm and gather. The level of violence would go way down but drama and petty actions would overcrowd the book. Not to say the book would be better or worse, but a book with boys is going to be less complicated and with more action. A book about girls will be complex, more sophisticated and more orderly. Overall I think the change would be interesting and I want to read it.
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Post by Cora Meenan on Apr 4, 2020 16:35:41 GMT
B.) The ocean is described as an impenetrable wall, something that is preventing the boys from any hope of rescue. It symbolizes their isolation and how separated they have become from society and civility both literally due to its vastness and in the sense of the boys' morals and lifestyle.
A.) I think there would be a few changes if the cast was completely girls however, I think that similar conflicts will occur regardless of gender. While girls would hunt, they might not be as eager or willing to, straying away from most of the physical violence and viciousness that the boys exhibit. Instead, there would be bigger struggles for power and verbal arguments between some of the older girls and more, smaller groups would form. I believe that they may work together at first but divide much more quickly than the boys with many conflicts arising depending on their respective ideologies.
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Post by Adrianna Castillo on Apr 4, 2020 22:20:46 GMT
As Ralph starts thinking about how dirty they are and how different things used to be, in some way he realized that they're becoming savage and wild. What he's used to now starts frightening, him he seems to get worried and nervous at the thought of never getting rescued, he starts feeling helpless and trapped on this mysterious island. We can see that he is scared and in doubt of ever getting rescued but is trying his best to have hope. Simon then comforts him by telling him that everything will be alright, that he'll go back from here he came from and he shouldn't worry. This shows us that Simon has hope for their rescue and really believes that everything will be alright once someone finds them. This could be foreshadowing someone coming to their island to get them.
If the book had all females in it then I feel like a lot would change. The girls might be able to get along better or establish rules and who's in charge better then the boys. Maybe they might be able to survive better but this is all based off possible situations that we might never know the real outcome of. We can't say that girls are able to be less savage then the boys because they could be if it came to the right situation. Perhaps we can assume that they would be more organized and emotionally mature then the boys and might be able to find different answers to problems, but this is all based mostly on a stereotypes or simple assumptions.
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Post by Megan Jaco on Apr 5, 2020 15:53:59 GMT
b. The ocean represents reality at the beginning of this chapter. Ralph finds it possible to hope that they will be found and rescued from this island, but then the crushing weight of reality washes over him and he is feeling hopeless and desperate again. When he looks at the ocean, he does no longer see the beauty of the water or the waves on the sand that he saw the first few days, but he sees a boundless mass of empty sea that he is stranded in the middle of with no hopes of return. a. If the scenario changed every boy in the story to a girl, there would be much more tension and hurt on the island. They would most likely have their wits about them and keep the signal fire going at all times so they would be rescued sooner than the boys, but while they were on the island they would tear each other apart. Girls are more often brutal with their words and the position of chief would pass from hand to hand due to the girl's thoughts that they could run the island better than others.
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Post by Ella Todd on Apr 5, 2020 15:57:51 GMT
A) At the beginning of this chapter, Ralph speculates how dirty and ragged all of the boys are, yet he is sad to note that this has become the standard for them. This shows them straying further away from humanity and more towards savages demonstrating that when left unchecked people sometimes have a tendency to fall apart. Simon attempts to console Ralph by assuring him that he will be rescued. This shows Simon´s compassionate nature, but this scene also has major foreshadowing. Simon says, ¨I think you´ll get back all right¨(Golding, 11). This word choice and emphasis on ¨you'll¨ instead of using ¨we¨ foreshadows that something might happen to Simon that would prevent him from returning home with the other boys.
A) I think that the events would be quite different if they were girls instead of guys. For one, I think the general focus would be shifted from thriving on the island to being rescued. For example, instead of ditching the fire to go hunt, I think it would be the opposite. I also think there would be significantly less physical violence, and they might even reject the idea of hunting until it was absolutely necessary. Also, there may be a leader, but there would probably be smaller groups because girls tend to cope with anger by physically distancing themselves from it instead of confronting it head-on, and would probably feel more represented within smaller groups. In addition to this, I don´t think the structure of meetings where only one person talks at a time would work, because we tend to all talk over each other, instead, they would probably implement a system where each of the groups has a representative to talk with the leader about what they want.
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