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Post by Jack Rueschhoff on Apr 17, 2020 17:45:25 GMT
*Star Wars Spoilers*
It's not that I found the ending, lazy or unoriginal, I just found it a bit disappointing. However, it was very easy to come to terms with. There were really only two options for Golding to end the novel, which was to either have the Deus ex machina, or the tribe massacres Ralph. Still, it felt hard to fit with the story. As the book was mostly about how the boys deal with themselves and the wilderness, a Deus ex machina, it felt very unwarranted. I don't think that there is any specific reason that Golding chose to end the book with a Deus ex machina. Due to the way that the story progressed, I do not think that there was any other way for the story to end. With every other boy on the island pursuing Ralph after Piggy's death, I don't think that there was any other way for Ralph to have escaped the island or come to terms with the other boys.
As for other Deus ex machinas that I know of, there are several in the Star Wars sequel trilogy. Force Awakens - Poe Dameron arrives on Takodana, Rey saves Finn from Kylo Ren on Starkiller Base. The Last Jedi - Leia uses the force to save herself from the wreckage of her starship, Rey kills Snoke, (THE ENTIRE FIGHT SEQUENCE ON SNOKE'S SHIP(MISSING DAGGER)), Admiral Holdo's sacrifice, Luke stopping Kylo Ren at the abandoned Rebel base on Crait, Rey using the force to escape the abandoned Rebel base on Crait. The Rise of Skywalker - Rey's ability to heal creatures using the force to heal others, C-3PO's sacrifice, using the Sith dagger to find the 2nd Sith Holocron, Rey's ability to use the force to heal others, Kylo Ren not only turning to the light side but also being able to teleport objects using the force, all of the ships coming to Exogull to stop Palpatine, Rey speaking to all of the Jedi to make peace within herself, Rey defeating a literal wound in the force, the most powerful entity ever to exist in the entire galaxy, with 2 lightsabers, Kylo Ren's ability to heal others with the force.
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Post by Rachel Thomas on Apr 17, 2020 18:00:32 GMT
I am feeling very conflicted about the ending to the story, because as disappointing as it was, for the immediate saving of them, I don't think it could have gone any other way. I think the best way to end the story would have been if they had come to a balance on the island, and then when they did get saved, none of them wanted to go home, because they started liking the island more, because it was show how hard work can eventually pay off but that never could have happened. If they had come to balance, it wouldn't have supported Golding's claim abut human nature craze for power, and chaos. Even though the arrival of the naval officer was very abrupt, I did like the way it was at the last last second, right before Ralph was about to die, because he represented the last semblance of regular society that was about to disappear, the boys didn't go all the way to the dark side. I think he was trying to prove that even though human nature gets kinda screwed up sometimes, and when too much power is given things descend very quickly into chaos, there is always someone to help lend a helping hand. This case it was a naval officer, other situations it may be an entire other country, or one person helping another deal with inner chaos. It was Golding's way of saying even though sometimes situations get out of control, don't lose all faith in humanity, there's always someone who can help make a difference. Despite his seemingly negative outlook, I like to think it all evens out. One example of Deus ex machina I think about is numerous MacGyver situations over the years. The guys always getting himself stuck in situations, and at the last second jimmies himself out. It is fun at first, with all the different situations he ends up in, and all the different solution he comes up with, but eventually becomes predictable. Although its not necessarily another person saving him, its always a new technology rigged up at the last minute. This reflects the feeling of Deus ex machina being boring and predictable, despite the severity of the situations.
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Post by Jake Haas on Apr 17, 2020 18:16:26 GMT
I was not a fan of the end of the book because I feel it didn't fit the book. At the beginning of the book, there was lots of hope that the boys were going to be rescued and they would all live. Slowly the hope of going home fades away and it turns into a bloodbath. The sudden rescue seems out of place and not a good ending for the book. I think Golding would have been wise to slowly lead up to the rescue and not just throw it in right at the end. I also didn't like how calm the officers were and not very worried about these boys.
I believe Golding did end the book this way because he wanted to show how important parents, adults, or guidance is and how it can not be taken lightly. The lack of support and guidance causes confusion, chaos, and poor decisions. Even if the ending was rushed I do feel like if made the story seems more real because in real life people would be looking for these boys for a long time, and would probably find them. The Deux ex Machima is in lots of books and is used a lot because it makes a good ending.
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Post by Sienna Johnson on Apr 17, 2020 18:32:53 GMT
The ending of Lord of the Flies was to say the least, unsatisfying and anticlimactic. It was extremely abrupt, and while this type can be a writing style and fit in very well with many books, it felt very out of place in the overall Lord of the Flies theme. It generally clashed with the ongoing action and crowded plot throughout the book, making it slightly disappointing. The ending works and can be vaidated in a symbolic sense, but is unrealistic and too ¨perfect¨, if that makes sense. In order for the ending to fit in with the rest of the book better, it would have made more sense for the boys to find a way off of the island and save themselves, instead of them being unexpectedly saved in a Deus ex Machina circumstance.
I think that Golding was partially attempting to enhance the overall theme of civilization vs. savagery, while also creating the message that assistance may always be required, despite your age, strength, abilities, etc. Some other Deus ex Machina moments are in Divergent, The Hunger Games, The Giver, and other Dystopian related novels. Specifically, in To Kill a Mockingbird, when Jem and Scout were in a difficult and impossible situation, they were rescued extremely unexpectedly and abruptly by Boo Radley.
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Post by Navin F. on Apr 17, 2020 18:41:42 GMT
I liked the end of the end of the novel in the sense that Ralph didn't die. I would have liked the arrival of teh naval ship to happen less suddenly. I would have liked Ralph to hide in a tree or something and then see the ship and run towards it rather than people just appearing in front of him. The end of the novel was fitful because it ends with the boys crying which shows that they are ready to detach from a savage world and go back to normal lives. However they also grieve that they are leaving behind what has become part of their lives as well as their valued friends who were lost. The fact that the officer was disgusted at the boys goes to prove that civilized people are disgusted at savagry, fighting, and war which has become parts of normal civilization.
Some other Deus ex Machina moments are in the first Harry Potter when Harry is unexpectedly able to fight Voldemort with the power of love; and in The Hunger Games, when Katniss is randomly saved by Thresh from Clove.
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Post by Campbell Preston on Apr 17, 2020 18:43:48 GMT
Although I don't have any suggestions for alternate endings, I do not think that Golding earned the ending. The way a navy ship appears just in the nick of time to save Ralph from being burned or stabbed to death was uncalled for, especially because it was summoned using the fire that was achieved be stealing it from the original signal fire. Throughout the entire story, the signal fire was a main plot point, creating the rift between Ralph and Jack, and going out as Ralph resolved to be the outcast and the villain to the other tribe. The ship appeared only after the fire that was supposed to bring a ship went out, calling forth the navy ship completely on accident. The officer's comment about how they were playing games on the island and about how he would expect better from British boys undermines all of the character development (for better or worse) that Golding had achieved thus far in the novel. While their crash started as a vacation and total freedom, it ended with an internal battle between animal and human in each boy on the island. The story deserved better than to end with the introduction of a character who has no idea what had been going on.
If Golding were attempting to show that once humans have lost their humanity there's no going back, then he should have left the boys on the island to sit in the mess that they created. With this ending, Golding may have been trying to convey the idea that humans always do have redeeming qualities and no one is truly evil or lost to the dark side, as it appeared that Jack and Roger may have been. He wanted to emphasize the idea that people can always be saved. This being said, I still do not approve of this ending. The defeat of the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz is similar to the end of Lord of the Flies in the way that both happened on accident. With all the terrible things that the wicked witch had done she was killed by a splash of water that was aimed for someone else. This is an example of Deus ex Machina because when all hope seemed lost, all the characters trapped by the villain, the good guys won by completely by chance.
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Post by benjkoller on Apr 17, 2020 18:56:46 GMT
I think the ending of this book was not very fitting because there have been multiple noticeable signals after the other and the fact that when his life was in danger, *that's* when they saw the smoke. It just seems very "planned," for lack of a better term. I think Golding decided to finish it up like this because it shows that when man is in a state and environment of chaos, severely questionable things will happen and they will become bloodthirsty. This ties into the ending because as soon as the officers showed up on the island an order of civilization was returned somewhat immediately.
Another example of Deus ex Machina is the ending of Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi, where Rey and the rest of the resistance is able to escape the approaching AT-AT walkers on Crait because a Vulptex appears out of nowhere and leads them through a tunnel system that leads out the base and brings them to safety. There are several other examples of Deus ex Machina in the sequels of Star Wars, mainly concerning the force (but I blame this on Disney ruining star wars, yes, fight me) from Force illusions to force interdimensional communications. The force illusion is a good example because Luke gives in and somehow makes himself a freestanding hologram in another galactic system, that looks very real. This ultimately buys more time for the resistance to escape, "just in time," nice going, Luke.
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Post by Teddy Sopkin on Apr 17, 2020 19:21:26 GMT
I liked the ending of the book,but I think it's a bit convenient. Right when Ralph is about to be killed someone finds them? I understand that the fire drew in the outsiders, but they had many fires. I think William Golding was trying to show that, at that point the group of boys had entirely lost sanity and it became a game of the hunger games. Another example of Deus ex Machina is Jurassic park, when the humans are surrounded by velocirapors and are surely going to die, the t-rex saves them by killing the velociraptors, but not the humans.
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Post by Waldyke Wyatt on Apr 17, 2020 19:31:06 GMT
1.) I do not like the ending I think that the boys are so cruel and they ruined a perfect place so quickly that they shouldn't have been rescued at all, and the naval officer would not have been so compassionate in real world problems, the boys should have a punishment for there cruelty. 2.)I think Golding is trying to say that he thinks there can be redemption for people and society's that get so caught up n the wrong things. It shows that Golding believes in redemption and a "happy ending". 3.) Though there are many The Princess bride has one scene in witch the "locane powder" is used in favor of "the man in black" just in the nick of time the man switches the vials.
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Post by Oscar Hackstaff on Apr 17, 2020 19:57:52 GMT
I thought the end of the book was anticlimactic because they got saved. I did not like the ending because nothing exciting happened, I would have preferred that the boys would of had a blood bath and Ralph won, it would have been a better ending. I think Golding just got lazy and did not want to continue the book any further and that is why he end the book with a deus ex Machina.
One deus ex machina I can think of is Transformers: Dark of the Moon when the autobots look like they get blown up, but then come back to save the day.
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Post by Marin McKinney on Apr 17, 2020 20:56:07 GMT
I was a little surprised that at the end of the novel the boys got rescued and get to go home, but now their lives will be forever changed. Ralph watch two very important people in his life die in front of his own eyes. I am glad that they got rescued, but I don't think it is fitful to the book. This is because there was so much violence in the book that I think them being rescued helps give the ending a plot twist and make the ending happier. I think the ending could also fit well if the whole island burned down including Jack and most of his tribe, because it could symbolize that the whole time , the "beast" was really just the savage boys. I also think the very end, when all the boys are crying on the beach, fits well with the novel because it shows that they the boys are still BOYS, and they aren't fully matured or adults yet.
I think William Golding chose to end the novel this way because, like I said before it gives it a happier ending, especially because most of the boys had no hope of being rescued and returning home. If the naval officer didn't show up on the beach at that time, when he did show up all the boys would be dead. It is also important that he included the pig head in the end of the book, because it shows how the Lord of the Flies was correct when it was talking to Simon, the boys would turn into savages and the island did go crashing down. Golding was trying to prove that not all bad things have a bad ending, and that you should never lose your hope. Ralph kept pushing to build the signal fire because he had hope he was going to make it home, whereas Jack had given up and was just trying to survive.
The only example I can think of for Deus ex Machina is at the end of Princess and the frog, but I am not sure that it is an accurate example. At the end of the movie, Charlotte tries to kiss Naveen to turn Tiana and him back into humans but it doesn't work and the clock turns to 12, meaning that they should be stuck as frogs forever. When Tiana and Naveen kiss at their wedding though, they turn back into humans, meaning that the curse magically doesn't work anymore. They changed the ending just so it could be happier and more satisfying.
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Post by Shaye Ridley on Apr 17, 2020 21:38:07 GMT
I think the novel ended very abruptly and quickly. In chapter 12, there was so much action and you were scared for Ralph, but then it suddenly ended. I don't think it was the best way to end the novel. If there had been more time building up to that ending like maybe someone saw the Ship approaching or something the novel would have been better. Although I'm glad the boys got rescued, in reality, Ralph probably would have been killed and the boys never would have been rescued because they were in the middle of nowhere in the 1950s.
I think Golding chose to end the novel in this fashion because he wanted to portray that the boys would not have been able to live without an adult. The boys showed raw savagery at the end of the book and from then on it was evident the boys would not be able to live in a society without adults. Golding also could have ended the novel this way because he wanted to show that without guidance people can go savage. As soon as the officers got there, the boys seemed to be innocent again and they all started crying. So, with that guidance returned, the savagery in the boys seemed to disappear. This could be Golding saying that people need guidance and companionship.
Another Deus ex Machina moment that I have seen was in TKAM when Scout and Jem were saved out of the blue by Boo Radley. Another is in Lord of the Rings, the first time they are saved by the Eagles and when Gandalf is saved by the Eagles.
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Post by Chloe Heath on Apr 18, 2020 0:54:48 GMT
I did like the ending to this book, but I didn't feel it went with the rest of the book. I liked how the ending put the whole book into perspective when the officer says, "A semicircle of little boys, their bodies streaked with colored clay, sharp sticks in their hands..."(Golding 200). I didn't like how the ending was so fairy tale like. It felt out of context and unnatural. Throughout the book and mainly the ending, William Golding was trying to prove how fragile civilization is. Golding uses the story of these children as a window into humanity, because if children who left alone are capable of becoming savage what does that say about rest of humanity.
Another Deus ex Machina moment I've seen is in Cinderella. In Cinderella, the fairy godmother comes out of nowhere and uses her magic to enable Cinderella to go to the ball. The fairy godmother waves her wand and suddenly Cinderella is dressed in a gown, glass slippers, hair and make up done and a horse and carriage waiting to take her to the ball.
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Post by Peyton Jenkins on Apr 18, 2020 1:07:20 GMT
I think that the ending of Lord of the Flies was fitting at least to some extent because it was foreshadowed several times throughout the novel. While it has some of the characteristics of a Deus ex Machina, it was foreshadowed when Simon told Ralph that he would be rescued. The burning of the island also went to show that Ralph was right about smoke leading them to being rescued all along. It also occurred to me that Jack likely realized that burning down the island was possible and efficient when it almost happened in the beginning of the book. These instances all contributed to the plot leading up to the ending, however, the boys were saved by complete chance at the last minute which supports Golding's use of the Deus ex Machina technique. Golding is showing that savagery and order and civilization are interrelated and the boundary between them is blurred rather than rigid, as it had been portrayed throughout the rest of the novel. Ralph had worked tirelessly to maintain order and structure on the island because he believed it was the only way that they would be rescued, however, it was only when he fell helpless victim to savagery, was he saved.
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Post by Mateo Piza on Apr 19, 2020 9:47:57 GMT
Not only is this a lazy way to finish this story but it is a lazy way to do a deus ex machina. The ship is an okay plot device but the boys suddenly "becoming sane again," it's dumb. Heres what should have happened jack attacks holds a spear to his back. He says that he never wanted to maintain the signal fire because on the island he had power and no parent could stop him. the soldier bumfuzzled is caught off guard as one of Jacks' boys stabs him this leads to panic with some of the boys running into the forest Ralph breaks and beats Jack to death in the forest and runs back to shore and escapes with the rest of the boys.
William Golding used this Deus ex machina because he wrote himself into a corner and needed a way to end the story quickly. It feels jarring and very lazy. The right way to do a Deus ex machina is one that upon a second viewing you can see hints at. A good example of this is an episode of Brooklyn 99(its a comedy show about cops.) titled the oolong slayer. As the show starts The captain has been transferred to PR and has become a hollowed husk of his former self. His rival Madilin wunch gives him vapid assignment after vapid assignment. He's at his breaking point. A detective Jake Peralta is also at a breaking point. his new captain isn't letting the squad work any good assignments and he wants to secretly work a B&E with the captain he thinks might be related to the Oolong slayer, a serial killer who disappeared a decade ago. They think they have a suspect and when it turns out they where wrong there bosses rain hell upon them. The captain Holt breaks and goes back to his desk job. Then Jake makes a connection and finds the real killer when they turn him in, Jakegose to the chief of detectives and uses this solve to get Holt his job at the 99 back. You can see that something had to happen because holt couldn't get worse and someone like the Oolong layer could do a lot for someone's record as a detective so it could give Jake some sway. However, the episode focuses on the impossibility of the case and the excitement of sneaking around so you're not thinking about the chance to save Holt from his job.
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