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Post by Mr. Malloy on Apr 16, 2020 20:27:10 GMT
Deus ex Machina in Lord of the Flies
Keep in mind that Deus ex Machina can be described as "an unexpected power or event that saves a seemingly hopeless situation."
Take a look at the following links to help give you an idea of this concept: *Deus ex Machina Explained *Top 10 Deus ex Machina Moments
Check out one of the best examples ever here!
The ending of Lord of the Flies could certainly be considered a Deus ex Machina moment. I’m curious to hear your thoughts though… In at least two (2) paragraphs, answer the following questions:
*Describe your reactions to the ending of the novel. Do you feel that it was a fitful end to the novel? Why or why not? *Why do you think William Golding chose to end the novel in this fashion? What could he be trying to say and/or prove? *Are there any other Deus ex Machina moments you can think of in other books and/or film? If so, what are they? HW: Finish the novel (Ch. 12)!!!
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Post by Isaiah Robles on Apr 17, 2020 14:38:11 GMT
I don't feel like the ending of the novel was fitting because this whole time throughout the novel many noises and signals made by the boys where noticeable enough for someone on the outside to see them. So when Ralph is about to die and all seems lost he runs into a officer out of no-where and now everything is okay. William Golding chose to end this novel in this fashion because he wanted to show that when man turns wild and no order is present everyone is blood thirsty but when order suddenly arrives everyone is civilized again. Another Deus x Machina moment I can think of is towards the end of the Rise of Skywalker, the resistance is about to get crushed by Palpatine's forces and suddenly every civilian ship in te galaxy just shows up and helps them win the battle.
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Post by Phillip Truong on Apr 17, 2020 14:46:38 GMT
To be honest, I did think the ending fit in the context of the novel, considering how the Deus ex Machina was explained. I didn´t have much of a reaction to it. I think Goldings chose to end the novel in this sort of fashion because he wanted to comment on how drastic measures call for drastic consequences. The choice to burn the entire forest down lead to the consequence of them being saved and having mental breakdowns when they realized how not-British they were being. Deus ex Machina moments are pretty common in the sort of stories I read. For example, in an anime called Youjo Senki there is this one moment where this main character is about to finish a gal named Mary Sue, but then an ally of hers appears and saves her at the last moment. There are also a few in shows such as Pokemon, Assassination Classroom, and in just about every shounen battle anime.
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Post by Zoe Newman on Apr 17, 2020 15:02:51 GMT
I truly felt that the ending of the novel was anticlimactic and slightly undeserved. The novel which is so eloquently written about the human nature and how terrible it can often be, doesn't seem to fit with the whole overarching point of the story.The Deus Ex Machina in the story just seems kind of sloppy and lazy in the way that it bails out all of these characters who have done such terrible things. Although they are only children they have still killed people and animals and if Golding had wanted to show that human nature once turned can never be truly brought back, he would have left the boys stranded on that island.
I believe that Golding had the characters rescued because he was showing that all people are redeemable and could be saved, morally and physically. I think his point was lovely and good, but I am not sure these boys truly could be saved. Another Deus Ex Machina moment would be in To Kill a Mockingbird would be when Boo Radley saved both Jem and Scout from being killed by Bob Ewell. Boo comes out of no where and miraculously saves the children just in time. Another one would be at the end of The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, when district 13 comes out of nowhere and lifts Katniss out of the arena. Another example of outside forces saving the day.
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Post by Audra Snyder on Apr 17, 2020 15:56:42 GMT
I do not believe the whole ending of Lord of the Flies fits with the rest of the story. The chase that the savages do to catch and kill Ralph has been set up from the moment Simon died. Jack's plan from the beginning when he was voted against for being Chief, was to create his own, better tribe and "over through" whatever order and power Ralph had left. When Simon died, it marked the first weakening of Ralph's tribe, soon followed by the murder of Piggy and the capture of Sam and Eric. As soon as Jack had taken Sam and Eric, the last people willing to stand by Ralph, Jack knew it was only a matter of time before they sought to take down the leader himself, who was left defenseless and alone. However, the sudden appearance of the officer to rescue the boys seems a bit odd. Yes, the officer saw the fire they had set up, but showing up and saying what has happened on the island was just games? That doesn't fit, especially since we as the readers have watched tremendous horrors and savagery happen on the island. Regardless, the ending of Lord of the Flies definitely fits as a Deus ex Machina moment, because just as Ralph was about to be caught by the savages who were going to cut his head off and put it on a stick, the officer arrives to take them all back home.
William Golding is trying to prove that kids left on their own, turn to their own devices and act on fear, turning savage and violent. However, the moment the adult figure is reintroduced, the children fall back on old habits to follow and respect adults. Golding is also saying that people can be saved. In this case, Ralph was saved physically, by the officer saving him from his eminent death, and Jack and his group of sadistic savages were also saved, snapping them back to reality to remember why they are strictly taught to never act this way. One Deus ex Machina moment I can think of is in the original Thor movie. Thor has fought a battle and saved many people, but dies as a result. Everyone mourns the death of their hero, until out of no where, Thor's hammer falls from the sky into his outstretched hand and he is alive again. This moment is an example of Deus ex Machina because the hero has already died, but his magical hammer was able to save him from out of no where.
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Post by Luke Brunner on Apr 17, 2020 16:47:08 GMT
I do not believe the ending of Lord of the Flies fits with the rest of the story. The boys had to overcome many things throughout the book and despite how interesting it was due to the excitement of the chase and the fire, I had expected something traumatic to happen, and Jack to realize his mistakes and then the author could show how Jack developed and showed maturity throughout the book, instead of becoming worse and worse as the book went on. I think that would have left the reader with a better feeling, and would make more sense for the book based on the events that happened in the book leading up to it. I think that William Golding chose to end the book in this fashion possibly because he thinks that kids don't adapt and change once they make up their minds on who they want to be. He may have been trying to imply that kids are selfish and don't listen to one another very well, or that this is what the world would be if there were no adult guidance. It is very interesting how Golding talks of the kids chasing each other and causing a large fire, but then suddenly being stopped by a clean, tidy authority figure, which seems to suprise the boys as they are taken aback.
One dues ex Machina moment I can think of clearly is the ending during the first Jurassic Park. I know it was referenced in the video, but as a viewer, it is obvious without watching the movie beforehand that in the scene where they are surrounded by the raptors that something is going to save them, but the way the t-rex comes in and saves them right when it happens it is a very "ohhh" moment when you realize you should've thought about that happening before it happened.
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Post by Emily Wingard on Apr 17, 2020 16:50:09 GMT
Honestly I think the ending of the book doesn't really tie with the book. The book was about human nature and the responsibility of boys deserted on an island trying to survive. Boys killing each other out of enjoyment. And the end of the book by running into an officer when running for his life was not a way to wrap it together. It just doesn't fit with everything that happened through the book. But at the same time it kinda makes sense. It was perfect time to get off the island. After surviving by themselves and learning to do things they've probably never done before got them to act upon themselves. Which isn't necessarily bad but in this case the boys acted upon murdering each other to get what they want. And in the end when they were saved it was a snap back into reality sorta. They realized that maybe they shouldn't have done all that. In the end, the ending of the book just wasn't a good way to end it.
William Golding is trying to say that kids on their own try and do what they think is best for survival. They act on fear and independence. Their parents not there telling them what to do. They have free will to do what they want. And in the end the boys being saved was about time. The book shows human nature and how bad it can turn and how ugly it could get. Once they were saved it was realization of why we shouldn't act upon violence. It gets us no where in life except regret. Deus ex Machina moment that this reminds me of which is stupid but of end game. One person trying to take control of everything and uses violence to get what he wants. But society comes together and saves the day.
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Post by Asher Gettings on Apr 17, 2020 16:54:00 GMT
I do feel like this was a fitful end to the novel. The boys have been through hell and back on this island and I think it was more than they might have deserved. Friends had died and I think if this trauma would have continued the book would no longer have been enjoyable. I think that William Golding chose to end his novel in this fashion because of the sort of situational irony of the boys not being able to control their arrival or departure from the island. I think by doing this he might be trying to say that it is human nature to turn on one another but it is only through luck that they are saved.
Some examples of Deus ex Machina that I can think of are when in the Lord of the Rings when the eagles come in and just pick them up and carry them home, in The Hobbit when the eagle just swoop in and turn the tide of the battle when it was looking dire for our heroes and when the dwarves and Bilbo couldn't think of a way to get rid of Smaug the villagers just did it, and in Jurassic Park where when the characters are surrounded by dinosaurs and are almost assuredly going to die but then at the last possible second a Tyrannosaurus Rex comes and kills the dinosaurs but not the humans.
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Post by Molly St. George on Apr 17, 2020 16:54:43 GMT
I don't think that Golding's choice was the best way to end the novel, as it was a bit lazy, but there weren't many other plausible options. Most likely, the boys would have continued in their cycle of savagery until most or all of them were killed. The man who showed up on the beach had a very poor reaction to the situation he encountered, especially for a trained soldier. When the Naval officer arrives, the boys don't seem to rejoice or even register that they are being rescued. Through this, Golding is continuing to make a statement about human nature. It is clear that Golding aligns with the belief that the majority of humans are inherently greedy, violent, and savage. He represents this belief through the boys' reversion to this wild and violent state and their lack of comprehension when they are confronted with civilization again. Nothing will be the same for them after their experiences on the island. Deus ex machina moments are found in a lot of literature and filmmaking. Even in Shakespeare's Hamlet. Near the end of the play, Hamlet returns from his exile to ultimately avenge his father's death (though it does result in the death of everyone involved) by an uncanny turn of events that is often viewed as a deus ex machina. Events like this can also be found in Harry Potter, a large number of Disney movies, and Star Wars.
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Post by Leigh Schmidt on Apr 17, 2020 17:01:40 GMT
I was not satisfied by the ending of the novel. I thought that it was unrealistic in the context of everything else that happened in the novel. First of all, Piggy and Simon, the most reasonable people on the island, were killed. Simon wasn’t part of a long fight with Jack’s “tribe,” and Piggy wasn’t ever strong enough to fight Jack or any of the older boys. Ralph had been beaten up and weakened by the tribe, and he was running from a raging fire, so the chances of his survival were very slim. Second, Ralph said that Jack’s cooking fire didn’t have a big enough flame to signal to any ships: “‘Look at that! Call that a signal fire? That’s a cooking fire. Now you’ll eat and there’ll be no smoke. Don’t you understand? There may be a ship out there--’” (Golding 206). This means that the navy ship that rescued them probably couldn’t have seen the smoke until the fire got out of control, which was not very long before the navy officer showed up. This means that, realistically, the ship would have to be close to the island when the fire started to get there before Ralph was killed.
One reason why Golding may have chosen to end the novel this way is that there are biblical parallels throughout the novel. By having the boys be almost impossibly saved, he is adding another biblical reference. The ship coming is so unlikely and it arrives at just the right time that it's like a divine figure sent it to rescue the boys.
Another example of Deus ex Machina is in Shakespeare’s A Midsummer Night’s Dream. During the play, a love potion makes people do things that they would never do had they not been under the influence of magic. In Act IV, after Oberon takes the spell off of the rest of the characters, the following exchange happens:
“Demetrius: These things seem small and undistinguishable, Hermia: Methinks I see these things with parted eye, When every thing seems double. Helena: So methinks: And I have found Demetrius like a jewel, Mine own, and not mine own. Demetrius: Are you sure That we are awake? It seems to me That yet we sleep, we dream. Do not you think The duke was here, and bid us to follow him?” (A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Act 4, Scene 1, Lines 1746-1755).
The events of this play are resolved by everyone basically waking up from a dream that they only vaguely remember. If the characters did remember the events that occurred while under the love potion, the resolution would not be this easy.
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Post by Nicholas Tong on Apr 17, 2020 17:11:00 GMT
I feel like the ending was not fitting because the boys created many signals for the outside world to be able to notice them. So when Ralph is about to die losing all hopes, he runs into a officer making everything okay. William Golding chose to end the novel in this fashion because when people are isolated from the outside world, people turn wild and do not care about any rules. But when help has arrived, they go back to listening and following the rules. One example of Dues Ex Machina would be in the book To Kill a Mockingbird when Jim and Scout are being followed by Bob Ewell, Boo Bradley comes out of nowhere to save Jem and Scout.
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Post by Ava Morton on Apr 17, 2020 17:19:48 GMT
I did not like the ending of the story because it seemed to fit too perfectly, like a fairy tale. They tried so many things throughout the book, any of which could have worked just as well as lighting the forest on fire, but of course as soon as Ralph is about to die, he is saved by a naval officer. While the ending works symbolically (civilization is on the verge of total savagery when all of a sudden the very thing that is fueling the savagery -the fire- saves them) it doesn't make sense story-wise. I think William Golding was trying to tell the readers how closely savagery and civilization are related, partly because they get so close to killing Ralph, as well as how the officer reacted when he found out how the boys were living. He was so disappointed in them, showing that the story could have gone many ways because even the officer had higher expectations for how the boys would live alone on the island. Another Deux ex Machina that I can think of is literally any dystopian novel ever, because the main character begins as an underdog and eventually saves the world, but no one expects them to.
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Post by Maddie Park on Apr 17, 2020 17:27:46 GMT
Personally, I did not like the ending of the book. I felt that is was very abrupt and very unexpected, which is usually good for books, but in this case, it didn't fit with the type of book Lord of the Flies is. The whole book is about the boy's struggle and them trying to get off of the island. It would have been nice to have them find their own way off instead of having help. If they miraculously found a way off and worked together to save each other would have been better, or if Jack's tribe just killed off Ralph's group. Even with that ending, the book would have a stronger theme of savagery and loss of civilization.
Maybe Golding wanted to show even no matter how hard you work at something you might still need help from others. Ralph worked so hard to get the boys off of the island but was helped by the naval officer. Or he might be saying that some problems are just so great that a higher power or person needs to step in and help. We don't know but if the naval officer didn't rescue them they could still be there and Jack would have probably killed off Ralph's group and took over the whole island leading to total chaos. An example I have seen of Deus ex Machina is in Princess Bride when the main character after having the life literally sucked out of him comes back to save his love of life.
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Post by Dreu Charles on Apr 17, 2020 17:35:52 GMT
I do not believe the ending of the novel was an adequate way to sum up the book. The ending was very anticlimactic, which was disappointing considering most of the book involved some sort of action or adventure that really clashed with the boring ending. The ending almost seemed like a convenient way to wrap up the story that made it appear as if Golding had gotten tiered of writing the book and was to sum it up as quickly as possible. This feeling the reader gets when reading the book's ending may be Golding trying to suggest that a good book does not alwasy need a great ending or maybe he wanted to leave the boy's fates to the readers imagination and allow they to ponder upon what was in store for the boys instead of flat out writing it. I can not really remember any Deus ex Machina examples from other texts or movies at the moment.
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Post by Maya Laws on Apr 17, 2020 17:38:19 GMT
In the ending of this book, I was happy that they got rescued but I don't think it really fit in the story. Throughout the whole book, there has been a little bit of hope that the boys are going to get rescued, but as they go on it starts to become less and less likely. I think the end was way too sudden because they were about to go to war and the chances of them getting off the island at this point would have been very slim. I think that Golding should have had more events leading up to their rescue instead of being like all of a sudden some random officers came and stopped them from all killing each other.
I think Golding chose to end the book this way because he wanted to show that they would need some help from adults. This shows that when left to their own, the boys would not have the materials of skills to survive by themselves. Also, I think that ending it this way makes the story a little bit more realistic because you would have thought that some people would have noticed the boys were missing and would try to find them. There are man books and movies I can think of that have Deux ex Machima in them. One example I can think of, is in TKAM, when Jem and Scout were about to get kiled and Boo Radley came out and saved them.
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